Does your sourdough starter actually need pineapple juice?

In 2009, Debra Wink has posted on The Fresh Loaf (my favorite bread-related forum) about her research into the microflora in developing sourdough starter cultures. The suggestion to use pineapple juice (or other high-acid fruit juice) to create more suitably acidic environment to eliminate the early stinky phases of starter development.

Recently, other bakers have suggested that there is no need for acidification to help get a sourdough starter going. Instead, a process using whole grain flours, careful temperature control and an somewhat anerobic environment are purported to help get a starter going in a short period of time.

So what is the role of pineapple juice, or other acids, in combating the "stink" that sometimes develops in a sourdough culture?

I can only share my own (limited) experience: I had a starter that I had neglected for several months in my fridge. It had some sentimental value, as it was developed close to 5 years ago. A month or two ago, I took it out, saved 1-2 tbsp and started to feed it 1-2x per day at room temperature. Even after about 5 days, it still stank in not a pretty way. It was not an "acetone" or "nail polish" stink (which I've had, mostly related to alcoholic fermentation); it was not a pleasantly cheesy "parmesan" stink either (which I've seen in some young starters); it smelled a bit of sweaty feet, somewhere between vinegar, sulfur, and something slighty sharp, almost rotten.

My best guess was that as Debra has suggested, Leuconostoc or other stink-producing bacteria had taken a hold of my culture. So I did what Debra suggested: fed my starter with fruit juice. In my case, I fed it with the juice of a fresh squeezed lemon, and the King Arthur all-purpose wheat flour I usually feed it. I did this only twice. The starter smelled a bit "lemony" for for those 2 days, and then I returned to feeding flour and water as usual. However, after those two days, the nasty "stink" was indeed gone, and has stayed gone for weeks. (I am feeding it more regularly now, maybe weekly, but it still hangs out in the fridge most of the time).

In fact I think both Debra's and Ars Pistorica's methods will work effectively. To me, aspects of both methods are complimentary and do not contradict one another. So if you boil them both down, what are the key elements?

1. Use whole grain flour to start a starter. (I think there is little disagreement that lactic acid bacteria live on most whole grain, and at least one study that backs this up.)
2. Keep it warm but away from light: you want to keep your new starter between 86-98F (30-37C). Light will kill yeast. 
3. Be patient. It will take at least 4 days to get a starter going, under optimum conditions. In less than optimum conditions, it can take 10 days. In addition, many believe that it can take 10 days or more for the overall "flavor" of the starter to improve. 

No knead sourdough #4

Baked this off this morning. Nice browning, but not much oven spring. Need to try handling it with flour OR doing stretch and fold. I think the gluten structure was too loose.




Still I'm sure it'll taste good




I love sourdough! :)

Posted using BlogPress from my iPhone

No knead bread #4

This is the Bittman/Lahey bread, using sourdough, with the corrected hydration. Instead of 1 tbsp starter, this time I'm trying 44g of my 60% hydration firm starter, which is close to 3 tbsp. Hopefully this will jump-start fermentation. Yeah I realize it's lower than the typical desired 15-40%, but I think it will do just fine; it's a pretty active starter. Added some wheat germ to see how it affects the nuttiness factor.

Remember, baker's percentages are all measured by weight! So if you're gonna bake, get a good scale! For the small ingredients (yeast/salt), you may need to get a micro-scale, b/c a lot of the larger kitchen scales just measure in even-numbered grams (2,4,6,8,10,etc)

Flour (100%): 430.77g
Water (80%): 344.62g
Starter (10%): 44g
Salt (1.8%): 7.75 g | 1.39 tsp
Wheat germ (1.4%): 6 g | 1 tbsp
Total (193%): 833 g

1. Measure out water
2. Dissolve starter a portion of the water; then add back into the main water
   
3. Add flour, then salt, then wheat germ
4. Stir to combine, until all raw flour is incorporated.
5. Cover tightly and set aside at room temp for 18-20 hours (start time: 845p, 18hrs=245pm next day, 20hrs=445pm; my rise was a little more than 21 hours.
   
6. Preheat oven to 500F, with cast iron dutch oven & lid inside.
   
7. Dust generously with flour, turn out and shape into a round. Cover and let rest 15 min.
   
8. Shape into a round, put on top of parchment, let rise in basket, covered for 45 min.
9. Remove dutch oven carefully, lower parchment & bread into pot, cover, and into the oven
10. Bake for 30 minutes, uncover, and bake for 12-15 more minutes.
    
11. Remove and let cool on rack for 1.5-2 hours.
    

Results:

See the photos!

• Good flavor, more sour than #1
• A lot more oven spring than #1, about the same as #2
• Texture is a little more heavy & dense than #2, but it's nice not to have that yeasty flavor
• Nice browning
• Crust thickness just like #2. #1 actually had a thinner crust I think.
  

For next time, I wish I could put the dough right on the dutch oven instead of parchment, which I think causes some steaming and extra thickness of the crust.

making sourdough bread more sour; my starters

Inspired by a post on The Fresh Loaf forums about sourness, I got to thinking about how to make my sourdough more sour.

A lot of the sourness has to do with the starter, and how it's maintained. The "sourness" has to do with the bacteria in starter, which produce both acetic and lactic acid. Acetic acid is what makes vinegar sour, and is more sharp and pungent; lactic acid is the type of sour found in milk products & yogurt, and is a softer, creamier, more mellow sour. (On a side note: lactic acid is a beneficial part of the winemaking process, as part of malo-lactic fermentation in white wines, which converts green-apple flavored malic acid to creamier flavored lactic acid).

In any case, to make a sourdough bread more sour, do any one or more of the following:

1. Maintain a firm starter (50-60% hydration)
2. Keep the starter cool, around 50-65F (in fridge)
3. Use higher ash flour (like high gluten flour)
   
4. Feed the starter regularly
5. Spike it (dough and/or starter) with rye flour
6. Long and slow bulk fermentation (1st rise) (somewhere between 8 and 24 hours)
7. Cool bulk fermentation (1st rise) (such as in the fridge)
8. Lower overall hydration for the dough
9. Increase the amount of starter in the recipe (the working range is 15-40% of final dough weight, or 25-35% of the flour weight)
   

To make sourdough less sour:

1. Use a liquid starter (90-170% hydration)
2. Keep the starter at warm temp (70-85F) (such as room temperature)
3. Use lower ash flour (like all-purpose gluten flour)
   
4. Don't feed it as regularly
5. Don't use any rye flour
   
6. Bulk fermentation (initial rise) for dough for a short time (less than 8 hrs)
   
7. Bulk fermentation in a warmer place (such as room temp)
   
8. Higher hydration for the dough
9. Reduce the amount of starter in the recipe (between 5-15%)
   

DiMuzio's "Bread Baking" and the forums at The Fresh Loaf have more great info on how to make your sourdough more sour.

I keep 2 starters right now:

1. My original LBB starter, built using Nancy Silverton's organic grape-based starter recipe in the "La Brea Bakery" cookbook. I keep it at about 178% hydration (which is very liquid); I feed it as follows: 1/4c starter, 1 cup flour & 1 cup water. It stays in the fridge most of the time. If I need to bake, I take it out and feed it 2x per day for about 4-5 days to get it back up to strength.

2. A firm starter, which is just the LBB starter but it's maintained at 60% hydration as follows: 1 tbsp starter + 1 tbsp + 2 tsp water, 1/3 cup flour. This one sits in a plastic covered container on top of my fridge. I feed it maybe 1x per week. I'll feed it 2x per day for 1-2 days before baking.

I've been leaning more towards the firm starter lately, mostly because I can work in smaller quantities for maintenance, and it last longer at room temp w/o feeding, so I can bake with it more quickly.

I had a couple other starters; one was a Carl Griffin one that my friend John gave me. The other was a rye-based version that I started a few years ago. I threw them both out, just because I like the flavor of the LBB one, it's easy to maintain and works well.

Making a lot of bread

A great French video about making bread (I wish I understood French!)

According to a post on the Fresh Loaf web site:

the recipe is very simple: 33 kg of flour, 22 litres (i.e. 22 kg) of water and half a bucket (maybe 5 litres?) of starter.

Amazing to see someone work with that much dough.

What's also interesting to me is how this recipe matches up with the 1-2-3 recipe for sourdough, which is, by weight:

3 parts flour
2 parts water
1 part liquid starter (100% hydration)
Salt

And of course salt, which will be around 2% (well, 1.8 - 2.2% to be more exact) of the weight of the flour.

Well, what is liquid starter @ 100% hydration? Simply, an active sourdough culture that has been maintained at 1:1 flour-to-water, by weight.

1:1 flour-water starter is different if you go by volume:

1 cup bread flour (using fluff-dip-knifescrape measuring technique) weighs about 132g
1 cup water @ room temp weighs about 236g

This results in a starter that has a 178% hydration!

no knead bread #1, 2 and 3

Inspired to make some more no-knead bread. There are many sources for this, and I've made no knead before (from Jeff Hertzberg's "Artisan Bread in 5 Min a Day") and was definitely disappointed. Flavor and texture were both pretty lacking (at least compared to the King Arthur and LBB sourdoughs I'd been baking).

Last week on Evan Kleiman's "Good Food" show on KCRW (one of my favorite food programs), Mark Bittman was talking about his no-knead bread, as published in the NY Times. In Evan's interview with Bittman, he was talking about 4 cups flour to 2 cups water.

#1 He also provided the recipe by weight. I did my own measurements, and got a different set of results for the water:

Flour: 428g (me), 430g (Bitt) (3 cups)
Water: 385g (me), 345g (Bitt) (1-5/8 cups)
Table Salt: 8g (me), 8g (Bitt) (1-1/4 tsp)
Yeast: ?? (me)*, 1g (Bitt)

* For yeast, I decided to use my firm (Columbia) sourdough starter instead of the dry yeast. It's a pretty active culture, so I use 1 tbsp,

I tested my measurements again, and yes, 1-5/8 cup water IS 383-385 grams. So the water weight in the optional listed on the recipe is PROBABLY WRONG, and will affect the final outcome dramatically (and likely in a negative way). At room temperature, 1-5/8 cups water weighs about 384 grams, not 345 grams. This also makes a difference in the hydration of the dough: ~90% by weight at 384 grams, ~80% at 345g water. 345g of water at room temp (72 deg F) is a little less than 1-1/2 cups of water.

So if I do it again, I will have to try it with a little less than 1.5 c of water.

Some other notes about these volumetric bread recipes (which I've come to strongly dislike): my flour was measured in 3 cups, using the "fluff-dip-knifescrape" technique. Packed down flour would yield a totally different result.

Here's how Bittman's original recipe (89% hydration) breaks down:

Flour (100%): 430.37 g | 15.18 oz | 0.95 lbs
Water (89%): 383.03 g | 13.51 oz | 0.84 lbs
ADY (.2%): 0.86 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.23 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
Salt (1.8%): 7.75 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.39 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
Total (191%): 822 g | 28.99 oz | 1.81 lbs | TF = N/A

Here's Bittman's corrected recipe (80% hydration):

Flour (100%): 430.77 g | 15.19 oz | 0.95 lbs
Water (80%): 344.62 g | 12.16 oz | 0.76 lbs
ADY (.2%): 0.86 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.23 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
Salt (1.8%): 7.75 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.39 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
Total (182%): 784 g | 27.65 oz | 1.73 lbs | TF = N/A


How much starter to add? Rose Levy Berenbaum says to add 15%/40% min/max of the entire (finish) weight of dough in starter. Based on the above recipe:

15% of 784g = 118g of starter
40% of 784g = 314g of starter

So translated, the same recipe would work if you leave out the yeast, and add between 118g and 314g of firm starter.


Here's my version:

1. Dissolve the starter in 1 tbsp. of the water. Once dissolved, add it to all the water.
2. In a big tub, mix with a wooden spoon, until combined.
3. Put in big tub. let rise for 20 hours (put in at 815pm on 12/6, started fold 12/7 at 415pm).
4. Remove, dust liberally with flour, fold using dough scraper.
5. Let rest for 15 minutes.
6. Liberally flour dough again, using scraper, fold/shape dough into round
7. Preheat oven to 500, with cast iron dutch oven on center rack.
8. Place into floured basket, cover with plastic wrap and towel, and let rise for 3 hours.
9. Turn dough carefully into dutch oven, cover, and into the oven at 500F for 5 minutes, then 25 minutes at 450F (30 min. total)
   
10. Remove cover, back in oven for 15 more minutes (45 min total).
11. Remove and let cool at least 2 hours.
    

Notes for #1:

1. Waaaay too wet. Even in a heavily floured basket, dough totally stuck and fell apart during transfer into cast iron pot. I think it would need to be treated more like a ciabatta.
   
2. At 30 minutes (when removing lid) was already nice and golden brown. 45 minutes was really good, getting some nice chocolates.
   
3. Poor oven spring (1 of 5); I think this is just because waaaay too wet.
   
4. Nice browning on the top and bottom crust, with some blistering despite non-smoothness of top crust (4 of 5)
   
5. Shatteringly crisp, cracker-like thin crust (5 of 5)
   
6. Nice chew (4 of 5)
   
7. Big open-hole structure/texture (4 of 5)
   
8. Mild, but slightly pleasantly lingering flavor. (4 of 5)
   

#2: making Bittman's recipe with 80% hydration and ADY.

Notes for #2:

• Rise time: 16.5 hours. However, after 9.5 hours, dough had more than doubled (130am); when I checked again in the morning, it was at the same level, which likely means it wasn't rising any more, or was on its way back down.
• Remove from bucket, rest 15 min, shape, rest 30 minutes, dump onto parchment, slash and bake.
  
• Already much better, more dough like when stirring up, less like batter.
• Still pretty wet; seemed pretty flabby this morning.
• Preheated oven to 500 with cast iron, place parchment and bread in, cover, back in oven, turn temp down to 450 immediately. Baked for 30 minutes covered, 15 minutes uncovered (45 min total).
  
• Really nice oven spring, turned out as a nice round loaf (4.5 of 5)
  
• Crust: nice golden brown color, with just a little blistering despite non-smoothness of top crust (3.8 of 5)
  
• Good crisp, cracker-like thin crust, with a tiny bit of chew (4.9 of 5)
  
• Great softness, with just a bit of chew (4.5 of 5)
  
• Good variable medium to large open-hole structure/texture (4.4 of 5)
  
• Mild flavor, but I can taste the commercial yeast (3.8 of 5)
• Probably could've baked for 5-10 more minutes. I would like a slightly darker crust, and, even after 1 hour of rest, still a little damp inside

Verdict on #2: I liked the rise (some of the best spring ever!), texture (softer than #1) and the crust (golden brown). I would like the crust darker. I'm not crazy about the lingering commercial yeast flavor.

Here's the original recipe from the Good Food blog:

No Knead Bread – Original Recipe
Yield: One 1 1/2-pound loaf

Time: About 1 1/2 hours plus 14 to 20 hours’ rising

3 cups all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting
1/4 teaspoon instant yeast (or a scant 1/3 tsp active dry yeast)
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
Cornmeal or wheat bran as needed.

In a large bowl combine flour, yeast and salt. Add 1 5/8 cups water, and stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover bowl with plastic wrap. Let dough rest at least 12 hours, preferably about 18, at warm room temperature, about 70 degrees.

Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly flour a work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little more flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rest about 15 minutes.

Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface or to your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball. Generously coat a cotton towel (not terry cloth) with flour, wheat bran or cornmeal; put dough seam side down on towel and dust with more flour, bran or cornmeal. Cover with another cotton towel and let rise for about 2 hours. When it is ready, dough will be more than double in size and will not readily spring back when poked with a finger.

At least a half-hour before dough is ready, heat oven to 450 degrees. Put a 6- to 8-quart heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel, Pyrex or ceramic) in oven as it heats. When dough is ready, carefully remove pot from oven. Slide your hand under towel and turn dough over into pot, seam side up; it may look like a mess, but that is O.K. Shake pan once or twice if dough is unevenly distributed; it will straighten out as it bakes. Cover with lid and bake 30 minutes, then remove lid and bake another 15 to 30 minutes, until loaf is beautifully browned. Cool on a rack.

No Knead Bread – Optional Recipes

WEIGHT VS. VOLUME - The original recipe contained volume measures, but for those who prefer to use weight, here are the measurements: 430 grams of flour, 345 grams of water, 1 gram of yeast and 8 grams of salt. With experience, many people will stop measuring altogether and add just enough water to make the dough almost too wet to handle.

SALT - Many people, me included, felt Mr. Lahey’s bread was not salty enough. Yes, you can use more salt and it won’t significantly affect the rising time. I’ve settled at just under a tablespoon.

YEAST - Instant yeast, called for in the recipe, is also called rapid-rise yeast. But you can use whatever yeast you like. Active dry yeast can be used without proofing (soaking it to make sure it’s active).

TIMING - About 18 hours is the preferred initial rising time. Some readers have cut this to as little as eight hours and reported little difference. I have not had much luck with shorter times, but I have gone nearly 24 hours without a problem. Room temperature will affect the rising time, and so will the temperature of the water you add (I start with tepid). Like many other people, I’m eager to see what effect warmer weather will have. But to those who have moved the rising dough around the room trying to find the 70-degree sweet spot: please stop. Any normal room temperature is fine. Just wait until you see bubbles and well-developed gluten — the long strands that cling to the sides of the bowl when you tilt it — before proceeding.

THE SECOND RISE - Mr. Lahey originally suggested one to two hours, but two to three is more like it, in my experience. (Ambient temperatures in the summer will probably knock this time down some.) Some readers almost entirely skipped this rise, shaping the dough after the first rise and letting it rest while the pot and oven preheat; this is worth trying, of course.

OTHER FLOURS - Up to 30 percent whole-grain flour works consistently and well, and 50 percent whole-wheat is also excellent. At least one reader used 100 percent whole-wheat and reported “great crust but somewhat inferior crumb,” which sounds promising. I’ve kept rye, which is delicious but notoriously impossible to get to rise, to about 20 percent. There is room to experiment.

FLAVORINGS -The best time to add caraway seeds, chopped olives, onions, cheese, walnuts, raisins or whatever other traditional bread flavorings you like is after you’ve mixed the dough. But it’s not the only time; you can fold in ingredients before the second rising.

OTHER SHAPES - Baguettes in fish steamers, rolls in muffin tins or classic loaves in loaf pans: if you can imagine it, and stay roughly within the pattern, it will work.

COVERING BETWEEN RISES - A Silpat mat under the dough is a clever idea (not mine). Plastic wrap can be used as a top layer in place of a second towel.

THE POT - The size matters, but not much. I have settled on a smaller pot than Mr. Lahey has, about three or four quarts. This produces a higher loaf, which many people prefer — again, me included. I’m using cast iron. Readers have reported success with just about every available material. Note that the lid handles on Le Creuset pots can only withstand temperatures up to 400 degrees. So avoid using them, or remove the handle first.

BAKING - You can increase the initial temperature to 500 degrees for more rapid browning, but be careful; I scorched a loaf containing whole-wheat flour by doing this. Yes, you can reduce the length of time the pot is covered to 20 minutes from 30, and then increase the time the loaf bakes uncovered. Most people have had a good experience baking for an additional 30 minutes once the pot is uncovered.
As these answers demonstrate, almost everything about Mr. Lahey’s bread is flexible, within limits. As we experiment, we will have failures. (Like the time I stopped adding flour because the phone rang, and didn’t realize it until 18 hours later. Even this, however, was reparable). This method is going to have people experimenting, and largely succeeding, until something better comes along. It may be quite a while.






#3, which I haven't made yet, is from the ATK web site

Almost No-Knead Bread

An enameled cast-iron Dutch oven with a tight-fitting lid yields best results, but the recipe also works in a regular cast-iron Dutch oven or heavy stockpot. (See the related information in "High-Heat Baking in a Dutch Oven" for information on converting Dutch oven handles to work safely in a hot oven.) Use a mild-flavored lager, such as Budweiser (mild non-alcoholic lager also works). The bread is best eaten the day it is baked but can be wrapped in aluminum foil and stored in a cool, dry place for up to 2 days.

Makes 1 large round loaf

3 cups unbleached all-purpose flour (15 ounces), plus additional for dusting work surface
1/4 teaspoon instant or rapid-rise yeast
1 1/2 teaspoons table salt
3/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons water (7 ounces), at room temperature
1/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons mild-flavored lager (3 ounces)
1 tablespoon white vinegar


1. Whisk flour, yeast, and salt in large bowl. Add water, beer, and vinegar. Using rubber spatula, fold mixture, scraping up dry flour from bottom of bowl until shaggy ball forms. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let sit at room temperature for 8 to 18 hours.

2. Lay 12- by 18-inch sheet of parchment paper inside 10-inch skillet and spray with nonstick cooking spray. Transfer dough to lightly floured work surface and knead 10 to 15 times. Shape dough into ball by pulling edges into middle. Transfer dough, seam-side down, to parchment-lined skillet and spray surface of dough with nonstick cooking spray. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rise at room temperature until dough has doubled in size and does not readily spring back when poked with finger, about 2 hours.

3. About 30 minutes before baking, adjust oven rack to lowest position, place 6- to 8-quart heavy-bottomed Dutch oven (with lid) on rack, and heat oven to 500 degrees. Lightly flour top of dough and, using razor blade or sharp knife, make one 6-inch-long, 1/2-inch-deep slit along top of dough. Carefully remove pot from oven and remove lid. Pick up dough by lifting parchment overhang and lower into pot (let any excess parchment hang over pot edge). Cover pot and place in oven. Reduce oven temperature to 425 degrees and bake covered for 30 minutes. Remove lid and continue to bake until loaf is deep brown and instant-read thermometer inserted into center registers 210 degrees, 20 to 30 minutes longer. Carefully remove bread from pot; transfer to wire rack and cool to room temperature, about 2 hours.

Columbia bread #1 & #2 (sourdough)

Made some breads based on Glezer's "Artisan Baking" book. Tried measuring recipe in grams, seems much easier, although it seems the scale doesn't do odd-numbered grams! I really like both of these breads; they may replace my LBB recipe as my favorite!

1. Firm Starter

1.5 tsp sourdough starter
1 tbsp + 2 tsp lukewarm water
1/3 c. bread flour

Mix and knead into fairly stiff dough. Let rest for 8-12 hours between feedings.

2. Levain

30g starter
95g lukewarm water
150g bread flour.

Dissolve starter in water. Knead together with flour til smooth. Cover and let rest at room temp 8-12 hours.

3. Bread

600g bread flour
55g whole wheat flour
15g rye flour
20g wheat germ, toasted
450g warm water
20g barley malt syrup (available in health food stores!)
1 portion Levain
16g salt (1 tbsp + 1/4 tsp)

1. Mix levain and let rise 8-12 hours.
   
2. Whisk 1st 4 ingredients in mixing bowl.
3. Dissolve barley malt syrup in water.
4. Add water to flours. Mix until just combined. Let rest 20 minutes.
5. NOW ADD ALL LEVAIN + SALT.
   
6. Knead in mixer at speed #2 (Kitchenaid) for 5 minutes.
7. Put in covered tub, let rise for 1 hour, til it (at least) TRIPLES in size.
8. Turn out and fold once (4 fold: left, top, right, bottom) and return to tub.
9. RETARD? At this point, you can retard in fridge 8-12 hours. If so, then remove from fridge and do step #10.
   
10. Let rise 3-5 hours, until not quite doubled.
    
11. Turn dough out onto floured surface, cut in 2, rough-shape into rounds, and let rest 10min.
12. Shape dough into batards 10" long, or place into proofing baskets.
13. Cover with inflated plastic bag, and let rise for 2.5 hours.
    
14. At 2.5 hours, preheat oven to 475F. Position rack in middle with baking stone, broiler pan on bottom. Let oven preheat for 45 minutes.
    
15. Add 3/4 c. hot water to broiler pan.
    
16. Turn bread out onto cornmeal-and-flour dusted peel. Slash with razor blade.
17. Spritz bread with water (I didn't do this, but the recipe calls for this).
    
18. Bake for 30-40 minutes (mine seem to be done in about 30.)
19. Let rest for at least 1 hour on rack before cutting into (2 hrs. rest preferred)
    

Results #1:

• Final rise of this was about 3.25hrs.
  
• Wow, crust has the best chew of any bread I've made so far; nice and thin, real chew like good restaurant bread
  
• Barley malt adds great flavor and aroma, kind of molasses-y
  
• Good open texture is just as good as "My Florist" sourdough
• Just wish crust was shinier, seemed a little tannish
  
• I also wish it got better oven spring! All my loaves don't rise enough!

Results #2:

• This one has final rise of about 4 hours.
  
• This one sat in a wicker basket. Dough needs to be much better floured in wicker basket before it goes in; it was stuck coming out, which affected the oven spring/deflation
• Nice texture from wicker
• Darker color than #1 overall
• Nicer blisters than #1 (more consistent, but just about the same size)
• Texture-wise, same as #1

Overall:

• Both of these have best flavor and crust of all sourdough breads I've made.
  
• These are more tender, not as tough/dry as LBB seems to be.
  
• Crusts are super-thin and chewy on both, which is better than LBB.
  

Next time:

• Try making batards instead!
• Try more "turning"/folding? This would be done between steps 7-11 above. More folds should help oven spring. As long as you wait 15-30 minutes between turns, should be fine.
  
• Try retarding it overnight
• Try slightly longer rise time; that should also help oven spring!
  

LBB sourdough adapted #1

I started some starter for my dad in Florida last week. It was really warm in their house (room temp is probably 77 degrees), so in 2 days the starter was bubbly and "cheesy" smelling, just like my LBB starter was. In his case, I just used 3/4 c white flour with a 1/4 c cup rye, 1 cup water, and let it sit 2 days in a tupperware on the counter.

Now I need to send him the recipe. I don't think he has a scale, so I weighed the ingredients of the original recipe on my scale. Here is the adapted version:

For 2 loaves (original):

7.5 cups + 1.5 tbsp unbleached bread flour
1/2 c. wheat germ
1-1/4 c. starter
2-1/4 c. water
4.5 tsp. table salt


For 1 loaf:

3-3/4 cups + .75 tbsp unbleached bread flour
1/4 c. wheat germ
3/4 c. starter
1 c. + 2 tbsp. water
2-1/4 tsp. table salt

1. Add flour + wheat germ to mixing bowl. Then add starter and water.
2. Knead on lowest setting on mixer using dough hook for 5 minutes.
3. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let rest for 20 minutes.
4. Uncover and NOW ADD THE SALT.
   
5. Knead on lowest setting on mixer for 5 more minutes (10 minutes total). You may need to clear the dough hook if it gets clogged up; however, dough will clear the sides of the mixing bowl.
6. Remove from mixer.
   
7. Form into ball: cup your hands together on the top of the loaf, over the sides and pinching to the bottom, like you are running your hands down both sides of a globe, starting at the Arctic Circle, down through Americas and Asia, pinching your pinkys together at Antarctica.
   
8. Place in lightly oiled ceramic bowl. Cover with inflated plastic bag, and let rise 3.5-4 hours at 75 degrees. If your room is hotter (78 deg), you will need less rise time, maybe 2.5 hours. If your room is colder (72 deg) , you will need 4 hours.
9. Turn dough out onto lightly floured counter.
   
10. Cut dough into two equal pieces. Slap each piece to deflate.
11. Tuck all edges under, rough-shaping into a ball. Let rest for 15 min.
12. Shape each into ball, and place into lightly oiled bowl or floured basket. Let rise for 1 hr.
13. Cover rounds with inflated plastic bag, and put in fridge for about 8-12 hours, no more than 24 hours.
14. Remove dough from fridge, cover with inflated plastic bag, and let rise on counter at room temp for ~3 hours. Dough should be doubled in size and at ~62F.
15. Heat oven to 500. Set your baking rack 2nd from the bottom. Put a broiling pan at the bottom of your oven
    
16. Slash the loaf 2 or 3 times across the top with a sharp knife or razor.
17. Put loaf in, add 1 cup hot water to broiling pan, and bake for 45 minutes as follows:

• first 5 minutes at 500
• next 20 minutes at 450
• rotate bread
  
• 20 more minutes at 450 (total of 45 min).
  

Should hit 210F when fully baked, and sound a bit hollow.

Remove from oven.

Let bread cool for at least 30 minutes before cutting in!

Notes:

1. In mixer it came together correctly, definitely cleared bottom of bowl. 10 minutes total kneading in mixer, as listed.
   
2. Initial rise was 3 hours in oiled bowl
3. After punch down and basket, next rise was about 2 hours
4. Fridge retardation time was approximately 13 hours; removed from fridge at 310pm.
5. Rise time out of fridge in bag: 3 hours.
   
6. Preheated oven for 45 minutes prior to baking.
7. Baking on middle rack with stone.
   
8. Single slash in middle of loaf.
   
9. Flour + cornmeal on the peel
10. Loaf in oven, then 2/3 cup near-boiling water in broiler pan.
    
11. Bake for 5 minutes @ 500, 35 minutes @ 450, middle rack on baking stone.
    
12. Let cool for 1 hour on rack.
    

Results:

• Great chocolate mahogany exterior
• Really good oven spring (perhaps best so far)
• Good blistering but not huge
• Good flavor
• Texture was pretty good: cooked through, tender with nice chew. No real problems to speak of, I want bigger holes though.
• Could be a slight bit more sour...maybe add a touch of rye flour?
  
• Crust was a little thick, perhaps too much steam for too long?
• 3 hours seemed like a good new final rise time; could even try 2.5?
  

For Next Time:

• Less hot water in broiler pan (1/2 cup only); OR no steam but brush/mist crust with warm water right before the oven
• More water in the dough, increase to 1-1/4 cup (add'l 2 tbsp) for each loaf.
  
• Slightly longer fridge ferment - 15 hours? 18 hours? Grandma's bread had a nice crust at 24 hours.
  

sourdough starter - daily feeding

Feed your starter 3 times daily as follows:

1. Reserve 1/2 cup of your starter; pour the rest in the garbage
2. To the reserved starter, add 1 cup flour and 1 cup water. Mix to just combined (lumps are OK)
3. Cover tightly and store at room temperature.

Repeat steps 1-3 above 3 times a day: 8am, noon, and about 5pm.

3x per day is optimal, but if you can't manage that, then do 2x: once in the morning, and once in the evening.

After 3 days of feedings, starter will be ready to use in bread recipes. Best time to use starter (i.e., start your bread recipe) is in the morning, assuming you have been feeding it for at least 3 days, and fed it the night before. Starting in the evening will work fine too, just adjust your schedule as necessary.

If you can't feed it for a few days, put it in the fridge. You can keep it there, without feeding, for up to 2 weeks. When ready to bake again, take it out of the fridge, feed it for 3 days, and you're ready to bake again.

LBB sourdough recipe

Here's the "Country White" recipe I've been using. If you like it, buy the book!

2lb 2oz unbleached white flour
1/2c wheat germ
12oz LBB starter
1lb 2oz cool water (70 deg)
4.5 tsp sea salt

Add flour + wheat germ to mixing bowl. Then add starter and water. Knead on lowest setting on mixer using dough hook for 5 minutes. It will be a bit sticky, but pliable.

Cover with plastic wrap + towel and let rest for 20 mintues.

NOW ADD THE SALT. Knead on lowest setting on mixer for 5 more minutes. You may need to clear the dough hook every 30 seconds or so, if it gets clogged up over the top; however, dough will clear the sides of the mixing bowl.

Knead using pinch opposite/flip/slap technique described in the book. Form into ball and place in lightly oiled ceramic bowl. Cover with plastic wrap + towel, and let rise 3.5-4 hours. You'll know when it's ready when you place your hand on surface, "should feel cool and slightly flabby on the surface, center core should still feel firm." Press your fingertip into the dough, slight indentation should linger.

Turn dough out, cut it in two (should be about 1lb14oz each). Slap to deflate. Tuck all edges under, rough-shaping into a ball. Let rest for 15 min.

Shape into ball into floured basket. Let rise for 1 hr.

Cover boules with plastic wrap, and put in fridge for about 8-12 hours, no more than 24 hours.

Remove from fridge, cover with floured towel, and let rise for ~3 hours. Dough should be doubled in size and at ~62F.

Heat oven to 500.

Slash the loaf with a backwards C shape, shallow, like a flap.

Put loaf in, add water to broiling pan (or spritz oven), and bake for 5 minutes at 500, then turn down to 450 and bake for 20 minutes. Rotate boule after 20 min (total of 45 min). Should hit 210F when fully baked, and sound a bit hollow.

Let bread cool for at least 30 minutes before cutting in!

enchilada sauce

Made chicken enchiladas earlier this week with sauce I had previously made and frozen...it was totally delish! Unfortunately, I don't remember where I got the recipe...ATK cookbook? Gourmet cookbook? Elsewhere? Maybe I have it stored on the home office computer. With leftover roast chicken, which was perfumed with garlic, butter, rosemary, thyme and lemon, they were outstanding.

Made some KAF "Pain au Levain" yesterday; Beckey got to try it hot for the 1st time, to rave reviews last night. Set up some dough for sourdough waffles tomorrow morning; I had to use the old buttermilk, which was about to expire. Decided to start another buttermilk-based "starter", as follows:

2 cups buttermilk
1 cup AP unbleached flour
1 cup rye flour
1/2 cup sourdough starter

I'll use it to make some bread tomorrow, perhaps grandma's recipe, or some close "clone"

Gotta get up early for mountain biking tomorrow with Dale. Bye for now.

(2008-09-04 Ed Note: the sourdough waffles were light, fluffy and delicious! A lot lighter/crisper than the same KAF recipe I made with milk substitution. Although they don't freeze as well as the ones with milk, which were somehow more tender.)

the sour life

Well, yesterday's bread turned out really well. Still holding up well today. Beckey said "it's the best bread you've ever made." Her seal of approval means a lot to me, and is very motivating.

I stayed up til 3am last night reading about Lithuanian black rye bread, including about bakeries in the US that produce it and historical and technical recipe information. So I'm going to try it again, albeit with a slightly different tack. My grandma's bread recipe is decent now, I just want to improve it to get closer to what I remember, and I think I can.

The recipe in the Lithuanian Foods book I have uses an active yeast starter. I'm going to try to do the same with the sourdough starter I have now, but modified. I'm also going to try to use their recipe, at least in generalities (2kg of starter and 6kg of rye flour is simply too much for the kind of baking that I do! That's over 17.6 lbs of flour!); that said, it's interesting that they are using a 3:1 flour-to-starter recipe by weight, whereas my version of KAF sourdough is ~3:1.75 flour-to-starter by weight. And unlike my grandma's bread, the recipe that I have uses no scalded buttermilk.

Here's the beginning:

1/2 cup KAF starter
1 cup rye flour (Hodgson Mill)
1 cup water

Let ferment for 24 hours.

So I had some leftover starter, what to do? Starting one more project: Sourdough waffles! Should be ready to rock and roll tomorrow morning...mmm! This is also from the KAF baking book, we'll see how it turns out. We had some pretty good sourdough pancakes that John A. made up at June Lake, we'll see how these compare. Should be interesting; using regular milk instead of buttermilk called for in the recipe. Hope it's close enough!

sourdough #5

Success! Almost ompletely happy with this loaf.

 

Crust is dark mahogany, full of flavor. When biting in about 15 minutes after cooling, end piece crust "flaked" into big 1" uneven shards, wow, so delicious.

Interior was perfectly moist, soft crumb. No gumminess in sight, at least on the end piece. Good flavor; not a lot of sour tang. Color is nearly like white bread, no grayness as in the previous loaf. Great structure; larger holes, not super uneven (not La Brea Bakery style), but not dense in any way, rather: light, airy, much drier than before but not dry-tasting at all. Much like good hard rolls found in restaurants.

Bottom crust was brown, with some nearly black spots in places, but evenly browned.

Additional baking info:

• Shaped round loaf; slashed with 4 scallop slices.
  
• 3/4 cup of warm water for steam in broiler pan
  
• Baked at 455F for 20 minutes. Removed broiler pan at 20 minutes. Baked at 450 for remaining 11 minutes
• Instant-read thermometer read ~204F when inserted into the bottom, right out of the oven.
• The total process took about 5.5 hours: from the moment when I mixed the flour, starter and water until 15 minutes after resting from finishing baking when I cut into it.
  

For next time:

• Try some retardation tactics to increase possible sour tang. Make 3 loaves one evening. Let all rise for 1 hr. Cover 2 and place in fridge. Let remaining one rise and bake that night. Bake one from the fridge in the morning. Bake one from the fridge in the evening. Compare flavors.
  
• Try adding more rye to the starter; maybe add some the morning before baking that evening?
  

This is a keeper! Really, no need to change, this is really an excellent loaf.

Now next up: grandma's rye bread! Some new things to try:

• Use table salt (not kosher salt)
  
• Check flour-to-starter ratio (3:2 by weight looks like a good start)
• Use same basic process as Pain au Levain, or Levain de Pate (sourdough + instant yeast)
  

Other things I learned:

• Cold dough can go right into the oven...as long as it comes out of the fridge looking like it's supposed to! Just preheat to 500 instead of 455, and once bread goes in the oven, turn the temp down to normal baking temp (450-455).
  

more sourdough

Have made at least 2 more sourdough loaves in the meanwhile.

Loaf #3: made with whole wheat flour, per recipe. Was not as flavorful, although folding helped with the bubble texture and volume. Crust didn't brown much, and dough was very wet to handle.

Loaf #4: switched back to the rye again. This one got retarded a few times in the fridge, and dough was extremely wet to handle. I think it sat too long; didn't rise too well, and baked up pretty flat. Decent texture, but too wet to handle and bake, and again, crust didn't brown.

I've had issues with the crust browning. Probably need to bake it longer.

Loaf #5. This time (started at 5pm, doing last 2 hr rise pre-oven right now), followed the King Arthur Flour (KAF) Pain Au Levain recipe volumes (not weights) to see if it made a difference. Funny thing is, dough was still extremely wet.

Here's the initial volumes I used. I weighed the volumes on my scale, to give a more accurate measurement of what went in:

5 cups all-purpose flour (weighed 1lb 10.75oz / 760g)
2.5 cups starter (weighed 1lb 0.5oz / 468g)
2/3 cup rye flour (weighed 3.25oz / 94g)
1-3/4 cup water (weighed 14.25oz, as expected for water)

So the weights given in KAF for starter, rye and water are right, but the AP flour was way off. Even with that, though, the dough was way too sticky, unkneadable without additional flour. I added 3/4 cup additional flour for it to just pull into a ball. It was still sticky, but able to be handled/kneaded in the mixer. Was almost too much flour for the mixer, though.

Here's tonight's recipe

5.75 cups all-purpose flour
2.5 cups starter
2/3 cup rye flour
1.75 cup warm water (~90 degrees)
2.5 tsp table salt

Mix flours, starter and water in a mixing bowl, stir until just combined. Let rest for 20 minutes. Knead on 1 notch above lowest setting for 10 minutes. Cover with plastic wrap and towel, and let rest for 1 hour in warm place, in my case, garage on high shelf.

Dust flour in bowl. Using scraper and spatula, turn out onto dusted board. Dust with a bit more flour, then do letter-fold. Put seam-side down into oiled bowl, cover, and let rise again for 30 minutes. Dust, remove from bowl, letter fold, then return to bowl to rise another 30 minutes.

Dust peel with cornmeal. Remove dough from bowl onto dusted board, and shape into boule. Cover and let rise for 2 hours in warm place. 30 minutes before baking preheat oven and broiler pan to 475F. Shelf is 2nd from bottom with pizza stone, broiler pan on top shelf.

Heat 3/4 cup water in Pyrex (microwave for 1 minute). Slash loaf with serrated knife or razor blade (I think scallop slash looks and works best).

Working quickly, slide dough into oven, pour water into broiler pan (watch out for steam!), reduce heat to 455 and bake for 20 minutes (don't open the oven door!). Turn down temp to 450 and bake another 10-11 minutes. Crust will be beautifully brown. Check for doneness with oven thermometer thru bottom of loaf.

Let cool on rack for 15 minutes. I'll let you know how it turns out!

sourdough again

Here we go again, sourdough is currently on its 1st rise:

1 lb. bread flour
5oz starter (nice, bubbly and stringy, like wet dough)
0.25oz kosher salt (about 3/4 tbsp.)
1 tbsp. sugar
1 cup water
1 tsp salt

1. Combine all in mixer bowl with dough hook. Knead for 2 minutes on low.
2. Turn in oiled bowl, wrap in plastic wrap and leave in warm place to rise for 4 hours.
3. Refrigerate overnight.
   
4. Shape into boule, and let rest on pizza peel dusted with cornmeal for 1 hour
5. 20 minutes into 2nd rise, preheat oven to 450F
6. Dust with flour, slash loaf with serrated knife
7. When putting in oven, pour 1/2 cup hot water broiler pan on top rack
   
8. Bake at 450 for 25-30 minutes on pizza stone (it was on bottom rack)
   
9. Cool on wire rack for 30 minutes.
   

Pros:

• Excellent top crust: thin, brown, and crisp
• Good spongy texture; more open/fluffy than last time, soft and chewy
  
• Extremely light sourdough tang, almost like white bread
  
• Airy "crackle" of bread when removed
• Would probably work pretty well with grandma's bread
  

Cons:

• Top crust didn't look tightly stretched, a little "gappy", but this is fairly minor
  
• Bottom crust burned a little
• Still not enough airy texture; looking for bigger, uneven bubbles
• Could be a little more tangy; probably using more starter would do
  

For next time:

• Slightly higher on rack (1 from bottom, instead of bottom rack) on pizza stone
• 25 minutes cooking time
• Use more starter (10.5oz, based on King Arthur Pain Levain recipe, which is 3:2 flour-to-starter ratio)
  
• Use more salt: 1 tbsp
  

sourdough revisited

Was going thru the fridge at the beginning of this week, cleaning out old stuff, and in the back I found my sourdough starter.

Opened it up, and there was a thick layer of alcohol on there, as well as a thin, dryish grey/brown layer that looked a bit like beef caul. And kinda stinky, on top of it all. I got in there with a spoon, cleaned off the crud off the top, took a tablespoon and dumped the rest. Mixed it with 1 cup flour + 1 cup water, put it in a jar, covered and let sit at room temp for the day. Opened it up, and it was bubbly but still was kinda stinky. Saved a scant 1 tsp of the new mix, remixed with 3/4 c flour, 1/4 c rye flour, and water. Just fed it again today, there was already a layer of alcohol, and it smells great! Rich, bubbly, doughy, nice!

A new sourdough loaf is in my near future. I wonder how old this starter is now? Will have to check the blog again....ok, so it looks like I started it in Dec 2006 when I made grandma's bread for the holidays. It's neat to see that it's still alive and kicking.

Revisited another good site with tips: http://www.schoolofbaking.com/sourdough_tips.htm

sourdough returns

I've been feeding my sourdough starter since sometime late December/early January. I had leftover buttermilk which I started to make grandma's bread with, then ended up with starter.

I baked and brought my first sourdough loaf to June Lake for Zach's birthday trip. It was pretty good, here's the test batch recipe.

My First Sourdough Loaf

1 lb. bread flour
1/2 cup starter
1 tbsp. sugar
3/4-1 cup water
1 tsp salt

1. Combine all but salt in mixer bowl with dough hook. Knead for 2 minutes on low.
2. Add salt, and mix for 3 minutes on low.
3. Turn in oiled bowl, wrap in plastic wrap and leave in warm place to rise overnight (or 4 hours).
4. Bake at 375 for 40 minutes.

Pros:

• nice sourdough tang
• springy, soft loaf
• small but even, springy/chewy crumb
• Baked through (not damp)

Cons:

• Crust didn't brown
• Heavy/dense loaf (could be more springy)

So I was reading on this nice sourdough-related web site (http://www.schoolofbaking.com/dough_tips.htm) to try some different proportions for different loaves. Here are some tips:

To obtain large crumb:

• Lower amount of yeast
• Longer fermentation/rise time

OK, so this time I will try:

1. 100% flour (16oz aka 1 lb. by weight)
2. 30% of flour weight starter (5oz by weight)
3. 1.8% of flour weight salt (0.28oz salt)
4. Enough water (to keep dough soft)
5. 1 tbsp. sugar

projects

Been working on several food projects:

Slow roasted pork: Tresierras had a good deal on some mystery pork roast at 99c per pound, so I bought it, rubbed it with spices per my Wolfgang Puck rub recipe, and roasted it @ 300 degrees in the oven. The meat was almost 3 pounds, which makes me estimate that at that temperature, 3 lbs will take about 3-4 hours to roast to "falling apart" status. Turned out delicious! Nice to use those aluminum roasting pans for convenience.

Vinegar: I've been reading about making homemade vinegar, so I went out and bought some unpasteurized, unfiltered vinegar from the local health foods store. I chose Bragg's brand, although there were several others, but all as apple cider vinegar. Anyway, the idea is to combine the vinegar with leftover wine to make wine vinegar, both red and white wine. We'll see how it goes.

Sourdough starter: so I'm trying to make some sourdough bread. I started with my grandma's bread recipe, and have let the mixture ferment for over a week, feeding it flour & water 2x daily. I ended up taking a cup off that mixture, starting another batch to make it less sour. Then I took a cup of that and added it to a regular bread recipe. We'll see how it turns out. The "batter" tastes sour, but I wonder if the yeast in it is active enough to give it sufficient lift (I somehow doubt it). Flour makes for cheap food experiments, nonetheless.

Greek salad: my friends Dale and Leah were recounting their trip to Greece yesterday and telling me about their "Greek salad" experience. Unlike in the U.S., that salad has no lettuce in it. It contains: chopped cucumbers, chopped tomatoes, thinly sliced red onion, a thick piece of feta cheese doused in olive oil and oregano. Sounds pretty damn good to me. I've always thought American "greek salad", including the kind my mom makes, as somewhat insipid.

Caramelized onions: made a nice caramelized onion "jam" last week by slow cooking 3 onions in olive oil with salt & pepper until meltingly soft, then adding a tablespoon or two of good balsamic vinegar and cooking that down. Deee-licious.

Well, enough foodie ramblings for today.